Fairwood's Fire District 40 Commissioner Issues Response to Union's Comments

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Responses to
"Fire District 40 Commissioner Responds"

October 23 - 12:29 pm
Doug McDonald said: Mr. Violante, Would you please provide the readers the date, time and memo that I supposedly provided you regarding members living within Fairwood?  My membership's privacy is important and I NEVER provided you any of this information.  I demand that you retract that statement that you received that information directly from the UNION PRESIEDENT.  This is unprofessional and untrue.

I also do not want to get into a debate with misinformed proponents but I can assure you that the members of LOCAL 864 do have the citizens of FD 40 and Fairwood in their interests.  Enough said.

Doug McDonald
President, Local 864

October 22 - 6:27 pm
David Arends said: Sir, Mr. Johnson . . . .   such perjorative comments.   I was there this morning, holding a sign in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other. You may have even seen me, in a black jacket with stripes on the sleeves.  Yes, immediately preceding my time in Fairwood this morning I worked a 24 hour shift at the 108th Ave firestation.

We don't sleep all night.  We work.   E13, my current assignment on Benson Hill, is one of the busiest fire engines in the nation, 24/7.

On most days following my shifts I go home and sleep.   This morning, as a free and independent citizen, I chose to participate in a political process in a community I care about, in a community where, for 10 years, I spent roughly a full third of my time.

Please don't assume what are my motivations beyond what I and my brothers and sisters have previously stated.  Your assumptions and perjorative comments are wrong and frankly, just a bit over-the-top.

Yes, I have a vested interest in Fairwood, if that's what you want to call it. Because if Fairwood incorporates when, not if but when, they face extreme budget shortfalls of 20-30% in a year or two, it will effect my livelyhood, my chosen career dedicated to helping others.

People whose livelyhoods depend on the viability of Fairwood have as much, maybe more of a "vested interest" in the incorporation issue as the people who live there.

Because whatever the outcome . . . a resident's home value will stay roughly what it is, your commute out of the area won't change much.  At worst, if a grocery store or gas station fails, you need to drive a bit further.

But for people who work or own businesses in the area, it's a much more crucial issue. Because if Fairwood incorporates and becomes insolvent, we stand to lose much, much more than a short trip to the grocery or council meeting.  If that's a "vested interest" then call me guilty.

October 22 - 8:35 am
Steve Johnson said: Well this morning I see Renton Firemen off holding signs. Nice we are paying people to sleep all night so they have the strength to go hold signs in an area they don't live in but have a vested interest in.  They need to make sure they make Renton as big as possible so they can get more district chiefs, captains and lieutenants.  Let's make Fairwood a city and keep our own police and fire department and not be taxing ourselves to death in the City of Renton.

October 21 - 10:01 pm
Craig Violante said: I'm certainly not going to get into a debate with IAFF local 864.  As I said in my original letter, I have the utmost respect for the firefighters and the difficult job they do.  In fact, I served along side many of them as a volunteer Emergency Medical Technician for District 40 in the 1980's and 1990's.

I also want to thank David Arends for a very logical rebuttal. While I may not agree with all his comments, I very much appreciate how well thought out his arguments are and how respectful he is.  Nice job.

I do want to correct a few factual errors and misunderstandings.  First, when I refer to the "greater" Benson Hill area, I am including all the area that was covered by Engine 13 prior to the annexation, and covers Talbot Hill and many communities around Puget Drive.  This area, plus the Benson Hill annexation area, is indeed larger than the proposed City of Fairwood.

Second, I'm surprised that Mr. Pederson would say "I do have bit of dismay at his statement that I don't live in the area". If you re-read my letter, I obviously never said that.  I was referring to the union membership in general and I stand by that statement as I got my figures directly from the union president and vice-president. 

Third, to Mr. Ron Hansen: I am not employed by Fire District 40 and I get no employment benefits, such as healthcare, from District 40.  Being a Fire Commissioner is essentially a volunteer position, although we are compensated a small amount for each day we perform district business.  I have volunteered over 14 years to my community via Fire District 40.  You were also wrong about the purpose of the public meeting held on October 20th.  It's obvious you don't want to let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Fourth to Mr. Bryce Nelson: as an attorney, I'm surprised you are not aware of the state statutes regarding what happens when a new city incorporates. In summary, the city is automatically annexed into the fire districts for the first year.  During that year, there can be a public vote to make that permament.  Without that public vote, the city would de-annex out of the fire districts.

Finally, I do want to apologize to the individual firefighters who used to be employed by District 40.  I certainly know you care deeply about Fairwood as your actions demonstrated consistently over many, many years.  I did not mean to imply anything different and I feel bad that I may have offended you.

My comments were really directed toward Local 864, the majority of which have not served Fairwood for many years.  I honestly do not believe Local 864 has the best interest of the Fairwood community at heart.  The mission of Local 864, like any good union, is to advocate for its membership.  I certainly don't begrudge that mission.  It's why they exist.  I would just like to see the union acknowledge that the citizens of Fire District 40 are currently enjoying staffing levels higher than any adjoining jurisdiction, and that it is as a result of local control.

October 19 - 2:19 pm
Kary L. Krismer said: Could someone please explain the union's position?  It seems backwards.  Fairwood would continue with the same fire district(s), which seemingly the union would want.  Fairwood would use four fire fighters vs. three, again something the union would seemingly want.

I really don't care how many fire fighters live in Fairwood, or see why the union would care about some of the other issues they've addressed.  I just don't see why the union would want to risk having Renton take over, thereby risking fire fighter jobs.

October 17 - 8:49 pm
Bryce Nelson said: It's interesting that Commissioner Violante and other incorporation supporters plan to annex the proposed City of Fairwood into Fire Districts 40 and 37.  District 37 contracts with the City of Kent, and staffs its fire apparatus with a minimum of three people.  That means in the area of Fairwood south of SE 192nd that would be covered by District 37, fire trucks would respond with three people.

That is of course the level of staffing in place in Fire District 40 prior to its contract with Renton -- a staffing level approved by none other than Commissioner Violante for many years.

What that really means is that incorporation supporters are okay with staffing fire apparatus with three people if we incorporate as a city of Fairwood, they're just not okay with it if we annex to Renton.  So in the end it's really just about politics, not principle. 

October 16 - 7:19 am
Doug McDonald (IAFF Local 864 President) said: I'm writing on behalf of IAFF Local 864 in response to a letter by Craig Violante, Commissioner for Fire District 40, which was recently published on your website.  IAFF Local 864 believes that Mr. Violante's comments are misleading and unfair.

Contrary to Mr. Violante's letter, our Local has several members who live in the Fairwood community.  In addition to current residence, our Local has many members who grew up in the area and still have family members that reside within Fairwood and Fire District 40.  With the close ties many of our members have to Fairwood, it is no wonder many of them have dedicated much of their adult life to serving the citizens of Fairwood.  For Mr. Violante to state that "98% of our membership does not live in the proposed City of Fairwood.  In fact, the vast majority don't even live in the greater Renton area" is misleading, untrue and misses the mark on the real issue at hand.  The real issue is that our Local has strong ties to Fairwood and the community as a whole.  A truth Mr. Violante does not like.

On a professional level, our Local's number one priority is the safety and well-being of the citizens we serve and protect day-in and day-out, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.  Currently Mr. Violante is the only Fire District 40 Commissioner to support the formation of the City of Fairwood.  His main focus in his letter to this paper was not to highlight the pros and cons of the proposed City of Fairwood, but to oppose Local 864's involvement in the political process.  We find this hypocritical since Mr. Violante is misleading the community using his title as a Commissioner to speak on the Fairwood issue.  The Board of Commissioners has not taken action on Prop 1.  Mr. Violante is NOT speaking on behalf of the Board of Commissioners but as a private citizen who happens to be a Fire District Commissioner.

Please view our website at www.iaff864.org for additional information.  Thank you for your continued support of the  IAFF  Local 864.

October 15 - 11:40 am
Erin Aboudara said: I have to chuckle when I hear that the Firefighters are feeling so "put upon and disrespected".  We do respect and appreciate our Firefighters in both FD 40 and 37.  Do you all remember the adulation that all firefighters nationwide received in the aftermath of 9/11?  We do support our firefighters, and this is why FD 40 Commissioner Violante is fighting to keep 4 person engine companies and the aid car here in Fairwood.  This will save the jobs of those men and women who serve our community in FD 40 and also help nearby communities such as those served by FD 43. 

IT IS THE CITY OF RENTON THAT WANTS TO REDUCE THE FIRE SERVICES TO FAIRWOOD AND OTHER COMMUNITIES IN FD 40 and Benson Hill and ultimately FD 43 could also be negatively affected by this.  It is the City of Renton that is struggling to manage its budget right now.    

Just look at their own Fiscal Analysis, from the City of Renton's website under "Annexations".  They will nearly go broke for years to come trying to annex all of Fairwood and Skyway/West Hill.  Clearly, their service model is either just too expensive in Renton or the tax base in Renton was already so poor that they have to annex higher income Fairwood and other higher income Renton PAA neighborhoods such as the newer communities in the East Renton Plateau, who turned Renton annexation down a few years ago, knowing that they will be required to pay for police services in lower income neighborhoods in Renton and would not see much benefit to their own communities.   

King County Sheriff's Officers have always served our community and how many times have you heard in the news about a deputy being shot to death, such as SGT. Sam Hicks back in 1982, leaving behind a wife and 6 children--he was my Dad's detective sergeant, or even stabbed to death by a mentally ill man, such as Detective Michael Raburn, in 1984, who was also one of my Dad's colleagues and he lived in our former neighborhood of Misty Meadows, off of 132nd Ave SE.  They both served Fairwood-Cascade and other unincorporated nearby communities during their years of service and were cut down in their prime. How about more recently in 2002 in Newcastle, King County Deputy Sheriff Richard Anthony Herzog, shot and killed with his own service weapon by a drug addict who had just been released from jail days earlier for assaulting a police officer.  Or Steve E. Cox, back in 2006, shot to death in White Center while questioning a suspect involved in another shooting.  He left behind a wife and two children.  Police officers almost never get the kind of respect and outright adulation that Firefighters get!

October 14 - 4:07 pm
David Arends said: I sense a great amount of resentment in your post, and I'd like to clarify a few things:

The new fire station at 18002 108th Ave SE:   It was built to replace a 50+ year old station.  I worked at that old station for nearly 8 years.   Every morning after work I went home with cold-like symptoms because of the antiquated HVAC system. We routinely had rats in that old building.   It could barely hold a modern fire engine.

The new station was a long time coming.  Your fire commissioners, (including Violante) approved its' design and construction.  I was on the committee to help design it to meet the needs of the community and the people who work there.  It was built large for the future, when our population density, call volume and commensurate on-duty crews are all expected to double.  Also, keep in mind that our firestations are YOUR firestations.  Along with other municipal facilities, it is a place for public meetings, the-big-one-emergency areas of re-group and shelter.

Gourmet kitchen?   Really?  Not really.  It's large, but other than that contains nothing that wouldn't be found in a typical Cascade Vista rambler.  Formica counters, plastic laminate floor, laminate-covered cabinets, middle-of-the-road appliances and fixtures.  Some items are commercial-grade; good investments, good use of tax dollars,  for heavy use and long wear.

Fairwood:   I worked at that station for 10 years.   It needs a remodel, badly.  Call ahead, politely ask for a tour, then come back here and tell us what you saw.  I think your use of "gourmet" will end there.

A vote against the city of Fairwood is NOT a vote for the City of Renton to annex the area.   Your post incorrectly implies that mistake.  A NO vote simply preserves what Farwood already has.

"Free healthcare?"   As I'm sure you know . . . nothing is free.   If our medical plan wasn't offered, we would certainly be compensated in other ways.   Are you saying that firefighter/EMTs, frequently exposed to sick and contagious patients in their homes, shouldn't have a decent medical plan?  L&I won't automatically cover most contagious diseases, and most likely only after treatment and recuperation are paid for by us (or by our health plan).

Transportation to area hospitals:   This is a complex topic, but I'll keep it short.   Your local fire department operates transport-capable aid units on a daily basis.   We continue to transport patients to Valley Hospital, Overlake Hospital, occasionally Highline and Harborview Hospitals for patients who medically need emergency transport and if the aid units are available.  Because of this recession our staffing levels have been reduced, so we are unable to transport as many patients as we did 18 months ago.  This means private ambulances are used more frequently, and yes, they charge for their services.  If you need . . .  blame the recession, and blame your elected officals for NOT raising your taxes to maintain services during the worst recession in three generations.   Please don't blame the men and women in blue.

Our Motivations:   IAFF Local 864 firefighters oppose the incorporation of Fairwood because we loyally serve that area, it's a bad idea, bad for the citizens we serve, and potentially bad for the livelyhoods of the men and women who serve you.  Yes, I'll admit part of that is personally motivated, but please don't imply it's all ulterior motives.

Debate on the City of Fairwood issue:   Did you know the Pro-Fairwood group refused an invitation to publicly debate the issue with the VoteNo Group?   Why is that?

Cities across the nation are privatizing services?  Perhaps, but there is no "trend" of privatizing emergency services.  Quite the opposite, in fact.   A brief trend of the mid-nineties was to privatize emergency services, but most frequently those private agancies could NOT meet their contractual obligations for staffing, response times and other criteria.  I researched this issue closely while earning my Fire Adminstration degree in 1996.  

Do you really want low-bid firefighters/EMTs, paramedics and police officers coming through your front door when it matters most?

October 14 - 1:30 pm
Mike O'Rourke said: Why would Renton Firemen be so concerned? Do you people know that Skyway is in Boundary Committee right now to annex to Renton?  If Fairwood becomes the City of Renton where do you think your cops will be??? SKYWAY where all the shootings are.  Your fire department will be Renton Fire but will need more equipment, more CHIEFS AND CAPTAINS.  Cities across the nation are privatizing services. That way they don't need to fund more municipal pensions.  Of course Renton Firemen are going to tell you they know all the kids!  I would like to see the fireman name 10 kids.  Firemen work about 9 days a month. 24 hour shifts and get free healthcare and benefits. Smoke detectors and fire prevention materials mimimized fires so the Fire Department started sending fire trucks on medical calls.  They take an ambulance that we pay for but rarely transport. They call a private service that cost the taxpayer a fortune rather than have them have to transport.  They don't want the status quo.  Who wants to bet they want Renton to be larger?  OF COURSE THEY DO. More opportunity to make more promotions.  Go into some of these fire stations and your home kitchen doesn't look as gourmet. Do you taxpayers have those accomodations at your place of work?  So please, don't tell me you guys are doing it for the kids and the elderly.  You are doing it for your wallets.

October 13 - 1:49 pm
C Pederson said: Mr. Violante has had the honor of serving you as an elected official for almost 8 years.  He was endorsed and supported by the fire fighters who have had the honor of serving you for, in some cases, 30 years now.  I have been a part of our community for 18 years.  I went to school at Springbrook, Meeker, and Kentridge; making it a total of 40 some years here.

I was under the impression the Fire District Commission was not going to take sides this time around; they supported it last time it failed and heard it from the citizens.

What other elected officials are taking sides on this issue for the residents?  I have not read of any. 

I do have bit of dismay at his statement that I don't live in the area.  I do live on the edges of the area, outside the proposed boundary, however my home is affected by any reduction in services.  Why, because E17 is one of the first fire engines to assist FD43 at my home if it was to catch fire. 

I am concerned Fire Commissioner Violante wants to lower the staffing to 3 men/women on this fire engine.  Why does he want a big meeting on the 20th to talk about something the citizens have already permission to maintain?

Am I a citizen of the Fairwood area?  You bet I am, I may not own property there, but I have lived one third of my career there.  I spend 120 days a year, 24 hours a day, living in Fairwood at the fire station.  I shop the area and my wife buys all our groceries there.  We patronize Shakey's Pizza very frequently, YUM! 

So, you can agree or disagree, but I take my second community seriously.  I too am concerned what the area will lose or gain with incorporation or remaining status quo.

If you have read the paper, even once or twice lately, you would be hard pressed to find a city not facing budget shortfalls and layoffs.  How a new city could ever get off it's feet right now is simply fantasy.  The city would be broke right away.  There would have to be tax increased asked upon the voters right away. 

Now, one contributor below mentioned that the citizens of FD40 are stuck paying for the new station at the other end of the former District.  Yes, that is correct.  But the Fire Commission was very smart in having it paid for by a bond whereas the residents that are benefiting from that station are all paying for it.  That includes the citizens of Renton.  All the citizens of Renton are paying a lease to the Fire district.  That fire engine comes into your fire district anytime your's is on another alarm.  That occurs often, so you are benefiting from that station today.

As for the comment on individual dorms, uhmmm... we now have women and men in the fire service and fire fighters respect each other’s privacy nowadays.  The Fire Commission understood that too.  Fire stations are not built with one or two big rooms anymore.  We also have Mens and Womens bathrooms, in case you were wondering.

I sure don't want to see my job be contracted out to another fire agency that doesn't know the citizens, the homeowners, the business owners, the kids, the schools, the roads, the area, like I and my coworkers do.  That is why I am in support of remaining STATUS QUO right now.

I often hear about how well the newest city is doing, Newcastle.  Here is a quote from their 2009 final budget,  “…based upon projections with the data we have at this time, in the coming year or two it appears that the City either will need to make the hard choice between continuing to cut back the operating budget and provide less services to the citizens, or raise additional revenue.   At this time, it appears the General Fund will have a fund balance of only $315,464 at the end of 2011, then a zero balance during 2012. We can spend conservatively over the next year or two and hope that the development economy will turn around. But if the turn around does not materialize, or materialize as quickly as we need, then it appears the City could be in serious jeopardy.”

This is why I hope you will think twice about putting too much credit to the last feasiblilty studied that is simply, flawed.  There is NO General Fund balance for a city of Fairwood right now!  This means you will have to vote to raise your taxes above the level they are currently.

Whatever the outcome, I still hope to be the one you call for help and I will be honored to continue to serve you in the future. 

October 13 - 12:12 pm
Marcia Holland said: I am deeply troubled by the ongoing tone of exclusion of the Fairwood Municipal Initiative supporters. Both in comments in public meetings and in website posts, proponents of incorporation speak disparagingly of people, organizations, and businesses that do not LIVE in Fairwood.

Communities that exclude others no longer thrive in our democratic United States. Citizens are called on to work together to find solutions to concerns and needs of others who work, shop, or own business or rental property within a geographic area.

Proponents of incorporation seem to believe that business property owners, such as those who own the property upon which the Fairwood Shopping Center businesses reside, should not have a voice in the governance conversation currently being held in Fairwood. A sign on Petrovitsky refers to a “ring leader”, an individual who opposes incorporation and who does not live in Fairwood (but who does own rental property in the area.) Fire fighters who risk their lives to save Fairwood citizens are criticized for participating in the democratic process that the current incorporation issue represents because they do not live in Fairwood.

What kind of leadership do the proponents of incorporation model for the proposed new city? Their leadership model appears to profess that only those who live in Fairwood have any say in the governance of this geographic area. No city can survive, much less thrive, by excluding a wide range of citizens and entities from having a voice in its future. The Fairwood area needs the influx of shoppers, workers, and property owners to supplement the small population that currently lives here but works everywhere else regardless of the decision its voters make on incorporation.

This ongoing tone of exclusion is one of the many reasons I am voting against incorporation. I do not want to live in a community that discriminates against anyone and everyone except those who currently reside inside the boundaries of the area trying to determine its governance future.

Marcia Holland, Resident of Fairwood since 1969

October 13 - 10:03 am
Doug Gibbs said: As the now retired Fire District 40 Fire Chief, I can assure you that when expressing their opinion, our firefighters are not on duty nor are they wearing their Department Uniforms. They have purchased their own Union logo shirt....unlike the Deputy Sheriff that expresses his opinion on duty and in uniform and the Fire Commissioner who shows up to the Boundary Review Board meeting in his Fire Department issued logo shirt!!  What motivates them?  Perhaps an aspiration of a position or Council seat?  Our firefighters have always had the best interest of our citizens at heart...and I support them whole heartily.  I am a firm believer that the service that our Fire District provides us is excellent and will continue even when the Fairwood Incorporation attempt fails.  After having been associated with Fire District 40 for over 40 years and having been on almost every committee researching the benefits of forming our own little city, I truly believe that it just doesn't pencil out unless the new city raises our taxes!!

October 13 - 9:17 am
D. Nguyen said: Craig Violante said that he has been an FD 40 commissioner for 8 years, but he says that Benson Hill is 50% larger than Fairwood?  Either he really doesn't know the Fairwood and Benson area or he made an math error.  Since I heard he is a city book keeper or accountant, that's not good!

October 13 - 5:15 am
David L. McCammon said: Fairwood's Fire District 40 Craig how many of them live in Fairwood, how many live in Benson Hill area of Renton, (formerly part of FD#40)? How many do not live in Fairwood because they could not afford to live there? What is the diffence between living out of the district and working for FD#40, and someone who lives in Fairwood but choses to work in Seattle? (By the way because of the agreement that you signed, the FireFighters work for the City of Renton, FD#40 doesn't have any FireFighters).

David L McCammon, Benson Hill area of Renton
(Former resident of FD#40).

October 12 - 11:07 am
Ron Hansen said: Local Control or Parochial Control? As a fire commissioner who directly participated in negotiating the contract with Renton, you know that staffing levels at Fire Station 17 are less a result of local control than lucky coincidence. In 2008 Renton Fire and Emergency Services adopted nationally recommended staffing of four firefighters per engine and began hiring firefighters. In the second half of 2008 it became apparent that this level of staffing would need to be delayed until tax revenue stabilized.

By lucky coincidence the Benson Hill Communities annexation to Renton was completed in March of 2008. Four firefighters per engine was the standard, so it was easy to negotiate for that level of service at Station 17. You probably also know Renton will reinstate four firefighters per engine when funding allows.

Your article is particularly hypocritical in that as you composed it, you were also mailing postcards inviting residents to a public meeting to discuss the financial challenges facing Fire District 40; challenges so serious that citizens are likely to be asked to choose between increasing taxes, or accepting reduced staffing at Station 17. You know that local control won't change this, but you are willing to distort facts on the chance that you can fool some residents just long enough to vote for incorporation, while claiming some unjustified credit for yourself.

Often local control ends up being parochial control, too few people considering issues too narrowly in both time and place. Consider the experience of a nearby fire district that not long ago replaced an aged headquarters station. As it happened a part of the district was working toward a vote to annex to an adjacent city. All of the firehouses in the district were in need of significant improvements, but rather than wait a few months to build the new station in the best location after the election, the commissioners decided to build one of the largest fire stations in the region providing a boardroom and a public meeting room, individual dorms, a data center, offices for the entire district support staff, a huge truck bay, and a large vehicle maintenance facility. Where was this Taj Mahal located? In the heart of the annexation area. When the annexation passed overwhelmingly, something that a survey predicted months before the vote, the district was forced to transfer the station to the annexing city while leaving the citizens that remained in the district boundaries saddled with bond debt that makes it practically impossible to make the much needed improvements to the Fairwood station.

As a commissioner who pushed for immediate construction of the oversized station, you should be particularly sensitive to the dangers of parochial control; instead of learning from your past mistakes you seem to want Fairwood to repeat them. Or is it that you know your commissioner job will be eliminated if Fairwood eventually annexes to Renton?

While you are calculating what it will cost you to replace your medical insurance, now provided by the citizens of Fairwood, ask someone to check your math. Fairwood is about 25,000 citizens living in just over 6 square miles. The Benson Hill Communities annexation was 16,300 residents in just under 4 square miles. Either way you do the math that works out to about 65% the size of Fairwood, not 150%. Are all of the incorporation proponents using your calculator?

Fellow citizens, do the math (don't trust Craig's calculator), then vote for Fairwood by voting Against Incorporation.

October 10, 2009 - 9:44 pm
Erin Aboudara said: I am fine with the Firefighters' union giving an endorsement to the "NO" side but I am not fine with them going door to door.  It is unprofessional. They are seeking to influence the voters by wearing the uniforms. If they want to volunteer and they LIVE in Fairwood, they can do so out of uniform.

Doesn't the Go Vote NO committee have volunteers who actually live in Fairwood to send out door to door?  Apparently not! I am a resident and I AM going door to door for Vote Fairwood because I believe that Renton and its public employees' unions do not truly have my family's best interest at heart.

It is all about getting our tax money and keeping Renton jobs and Mayor Law has announced that layoffs of Renton employees are coming this year. We are supposed to believe that annexation to Renton is going to improve things for us? I don't see how.

October 10, 2009 - 10:04 am
Steve Johnson said: I had 2 City IF Renton Firefighters come with Fire Uniforms on to my door and hand me literature telling me to vote NO.  I told their chief of Renton Fire and he said there was nothing wrong with it as long as they were not being paid!  Handing out political material in UNIFORM?  They don't live in Fairwood and don't even live in Renton yet they know what is best for us?

October 10, 2009 - 8:19 am
Ray Roberts said: I appreciate your ongoing coverage of the Incorporation debate.  Well done.  I am disheartened though at our community as a whole as we allow the destruction and theft of campaign signs and nothing is ever said or done about it.  Our country is great because we CAN have different ideas and views. 
It is sad when a group thinks its OK to resort to thuggery to stiffle free speech.